We are still pawing through all of the hate mail and comments regarding LS swaps. Good lord, that can bring out some of the evil in you folks! Many people fired off on what was completely and utterly wrong with any and every non-GM packing the late-model block, with many people picking a particular car, lamenting the LS motor in it, yelping about “unoriginality”, and pointing out the “correct” engine for the car. One car that got some especially volatile mentions was the 1970 Dodge Challenger from the autocross, which got some quips like “roll it over and burn it”. Harsh crowd.
Oddly enough, it’s the Mopar guys that tend to be renowned for putting their cars on a platform, with their grease marks and paint daubs. Or is it Ferrari guys? Maybe it’s the dude who thinks it’s a cardinal sin to put a wheel over 15 inches in diameter on any car made before 1988, or the one who cries foul every time another car gets tubbed. It’s the “sacred cow” argument: it’s fine to do whatever the hell you like to a Chevy truck, there’s a million of the things out there, but if you stuff an LS into a Fox-body LTD, suddenly the Ford crowd is crying foul. You get the idea…and that’s what we want to hear from you: what is your personal “sacred cow”? Nothing but a turbocharged V6 for a G-body Buick? Are you the type that would twitch at modifying this 100-point-restored GTO? Tell us below!
Wow, that’s really a good question.
Even cars I love, I’m not above swapping later-model engines of the same make into as a repower, like a 1980’s 3FE into a pre-smog FJ40 or a TJ 4.0 into an Eagle Wagon. If I were to choose, I guess it would be an AMX with a 390 and 4-speed. Lovingly restore it to better-than-factory condition, and maybe upgrade the valvetrain, intake, and ignition, but otherwise leave it as pure as possible.
i have never found one vehicle that would be the “sacred cow”. i am almost 60 years old and we have been swapping, updating and “improving” since i was fourteen and found that cars were more fun than football.
When there are wholesale engine swaps going the other direction, then people might simmer down.
Swaps like the C7 Corvette for example. Why is GM still equipping an iconic American sports car with that archaic ’50’s tech pushrod V8?
The C7 Corvette deserves the best V8 America has to offer and that engine is built by Ford. It is commonly known as the Voodoo V8 and is found under the hoods of GT 350 Mustangs.
This engine literally screams and redlines at 8500 rpm. It produces 526hp from just 318 cubic inches, and it will maintain that power level lap after lap without succumbing to “heat soak” issues.
Let’s see the “hot rodding” golden rule be used on America’s premier sports car. When a Voodoo V8 powered Vette starts lapping the over stressed pushrod Chevy powered version we should see a great wave of engine swaps going that way. Right?
I used to feel the same way about pushrod engines, but the truth is that it’s the engineering of the valvetrain and chamber runners that really makes a difference. The Ford Modular engines were dogs on power even though they were SOHC/DOHC, but the LS and Gen III Hemi are really good designs and made respectable power even though they’re “antiquated”.
Everyone’s by all means entitled to their own opinions, and both of my trucks are OHC and I like the way they perform, but when my back’s the sun-baked gravel of my driveway wrenching on them I really love the simplicity of the cam in the block.
Yes well I disagree and most respectfully so. Pushrod engines have a much more complex cylinder block casting. They are subject to valve lash changes due to the expansion of the engine assembly at operating temp.
Two valve pushrod engines require big valve spring pressures and that is a big problem with only expensive remedies.
Sixteen pushrods infringe on intake porting. By comparison a two valve pushrod wedge head can only come close to the perfect spark plug placement of a four valve combustion chamber.
The biggest fear most people have when contemplating the so called complexity of Ford Modular engines is the timing chain arrangement. Yes there are more parts in there than an old fashioned OHV engine but ironically that’s where the majic happens.
Because of the current Ford OHC’s inherent superiority the engineers have delivered “twin independent variable cam timing”.
This my friends is the “holy grail” of engine design. It is the very reason why and how Ford can deliver power comparable to engines up to 100 cubic inches larger while delivering excellent fuel mileage and most importantly very well within ever more stringent EPA regulations.
GM and FCA have got some work to do because their high hp V8’s most likely will not meet emissions as they come into full effect in less than 10 years.
I hadn’t thought of the added casting complexity for the block and strains added to the heads by the valve springs, those are really good points.
I think that it’s worth mentioning that I don’t really subscribe to either “camp”, I just love cars. I am a little flustered by the added maintenance of OHC timing chains and belts, but when the day’s over it’s all part of joy. No matter how we slice it this will always be a half-dozen of one or six of the other situation, so what’s the use talking about our machines when we could all be just having fun playing with them?
Take care, thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Main reason the Corvette uses a pushrod engine is for the compact size. Ford modular motors are downright huge – they make a 460 look small. Fitting an overhead cam motor into the Corvette engine compartment would be a huge challenge.
Why would anyone want a Ford engine in a Corvette? Lower the value and go slower? Your point about pushrod engines is silly. Plenty of LS engines kicking Ford butt everyday. Mod motors….yawn.
I love Chevys. Sbc is the best motor ever hands down, BUT put that in any other GM car and its all over for me. Dosent belong in any Pontiac Olds or Buick,LS included. Maybe in a G body I would let it go but certainly not in a 69 GTO or Firebird.
Don’t put Chev engines in Pontiacs, it’s a crime that should be punished severely, and repeatedly.
🙂
to answer the original question, that 100 point gto would be about it.
My sacred cow is seeing any original muscle car butchered up to where it cannot be brought back to how it originally started.
I can think of two that had me sucking my thumb hiding in the closet rocking myself to sleep. First a Ferrari 308 that had a fiero 2.8 drivetrain swapped in and second a Duesenberg Model J that was found in South America after it was being used as a farm tractor.
Cars were never meant to be investments or 100 point restorations they were meant to be driven so to me no car is sacred . If its your car modify it how you want to . If some body doesn’t like it tell them to piss off . As for that 100 point GTO the paint looks to good to have come from a GM factory. So now I’ll sit back and wait for the owner to tell me to shut the f up.
putting in a ls chevy engine in everything is plain brain lazy. it shows that no competence of being able to build another brand of engine. I walk away from cars that have been bastardized no matter how good the rest of the car looks. it’s like the movie ‘ground hog day’. same thing day after day after day. BORING………..
Chevy engines in Chevys (except in Canada when Pontiacs had Chevy engines). . . Ford engines in Fords . . . Pontiac engines in Pontiacs . . . you get the idea.
BTW, that 100 point GTO is a 1969 RAIV car. Worth about $150,000
Sacred Cow… 1983 Buick Riviera Indy Pace Car (the real one and it’s winner car clone)
Twin turbo 4.1L V6 from the factory in a convertible Riviera which are honestly pretty rare, turbo or not. Since there where 2 made, I’d not mess with that one. I’ll stay out of the “only ____ in ____” debate as I do have an opinion but since I don’t fund anyone else’s work it doesn’t really matter.
The thought that there really could be a rich Chevy lover that would actually contemplate putting an LS into a Ferrari GTO has made my day!
We all know that lovers of the bow tie run a distant second to single-cell organisms in the intelligence stakes – but to wipe millions of the price of this all-time classic with an engine swap is an action that beggars belief!
Nobody could be THAT stupid – or could they?
My pet peeve is the pointless cross-branded engine swap. Sometimes it makes sense to go into another company’s parts bin when there is no clear equivalent from the original manufacturer. For example, if you want a Toyota 2JZ in a Dodge Dart – there’s no equivalent Mopar engine. A turbo slant six build would be something rather different. I’ve opted for a turbo slant six myself, but I can understand wanting to use a 2JZ instead.
But putting a Chevy 350 in the same Dodge Dart – that I don’t get. You end up with a lot more custom fabrication to end up with something that’s not all that different from a Mopar 360 in a Dodge Dart, other than maybe trying to send some message about how Mopar engines aren’t good enough for you. And possibly having to hack out the inner fenders to fit the headers.
Oooh… that brings me to another pet peeve. Putting fenderwell headers in a unibody car without really taking the time to reinforce the front structure to compensate. I’ve seen a couple Mopar A-bodies where someone cut up the inner fenders to put in fenderwell headers, often leaving the corners squared off, and wondering why they had severe alignment and chassis flex issues. You don’t think having hacked several square feet out of your FRAME RAILS on each side has something to do with it, do you?
Lamborghini Miura. It would be an absolute sacrilege to modify something that beautiful.
what, even though their design has the gearbox and engine sharing the same oil and they have a propensity to burst into flames??
Buick GNX. the ultimate Grand National. 547 produced.
one is up for auction on Mecum right now? 16.2 ORIGINAL miles.
I’ve been an unscrupulous modifier my whole life. We bought the hulk of a ’51 Ford woodie wagon 15 years ago and I swapped in a 350 Chevy (love Chevy engines) Jag suspension, AC… all the stuff that makes it a good driver. We recently bought a nice survivior ’55 Thunderbird and that one will remain mostly stock. I swapped in a power front disc kit, a 12 volt system and Edelbrock carb, all making it more reliable for my wife to drive. I can see the case for both. It’s only original once but if it’s already beat up, I look at it as a blank canvas.
Early Corvettes with matching numbers engines. Don’t F with those.
I think it basically boils down to value. If the car is valued higher in stock form you don’t want to jack with it. If money is no object then it’s only the ultra rare cars that should not be modified, for historical preservation reasons.
If I had any one sacred cow, just cause I’m a Ford guy it’d have to be a Boss 429. In reality, It drives me up a wall to see someone take a complete rare/collectible car and tear it apart to swap a modern drive train in it or air suspension or all that jazz. If you’re swapping everything out anyway, a 6 banger base model will work just as well as that big block/hemi/high-po car you’re about to rip apart.
meh. who gives a flying crap what badge gets screwed on the front of it? I’ve worked over the years in GM, Ford and Chrysler (at the time that they became Mitsubishi in Australia) and guess what they have in common? Production workers screwing them together that really couldnt give a shit about quality or maintaining the marque’s individuality…we had a guy who bled pentastar passion at Chrysler…imagine how he felt when mitsi took over and pretty well overnight we went from slapping chrysler badges on to mitsi badges… Or how about being a toolmaker at GM/H and a big slab of the dies we worked on were actually Toyota dies? (Holden used to sell Commodores as Toyota Lexcens as well…). My point is this – if the people making and designing the cars dont care what name is on the fender why should anyone else?
I’ve never had any sacred cows myself though I’ve always kept my Pontiacs all PMD, mainly due to their superior, torque producing design. I guess if I had a bespoke coach built car like a RR round door or old school Bugatti I wouldn’t modify it. But as a rule of thumb if I can afford the car no one (including me) will shed a tear no matter what I do to it.
You know the saying,,,its not the destination its the journey,,,,well the same holds true for bringing auto’s back to life, use what you have or can afford. Ever hear of a test mule? I had a 55 chevy that we put every engine ever made in just to have fun and say we did it. sometimes us motorheads with kids have to start with a junkyard engine we could afford and work our way up, sometimes it wasnt pretty. Now all these years later I make the best motor mounts in texas, and I had more fun than the guys worrying about “purity”. Its just iron that your wife sells cheap when you die anyways!