Editor’s note: Last week Chad and I both wrote columns lamenting stuff. Chad’s was about globalization and identity while mine was about apathy and youth disengagement with hot rodding. Original BangShifter Bryan McTaggart was inspired to write his own rebuttal/response to our work. We’re going to call this BackFire and encourage others to do as Bryan did and pen a counter response to any of our ChadMouth or Barnstormin’ columns. Without further adieu, here’s Bryan McTaggart….
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On Wednesday, Brian and Chad both posted editorials that triggered nerves with me (Chadmouth: We Have Failed! We’ve Gone International and it’s Killing Baseball, Apple Pie, and Chevrolet and Barnstormin’: Bad Teachers or Bad Students?) I was disturbed by both columns, not because of what Brian and Chad said so much as what came up in the comments, both on Facebook and BangShift. I want to address some of the factors that keep coming up during the discussions of the topics.
Chad’s column lamented the globalization of the automotive market and that nowadays, most cars are globalized kitbashes and that the younger generation does not care about “home team” backgrounds. It’s true that most trucks that are considered “domestic” come from other countries…but look closely: Canada and Mexico. Yes, NAFTA countries, who we easily agreed were no problem to work with. The United States have been doing business with these two for decades with no issues for any other products, yet when it comes to the automobile, it seems to be a catalyst for anger. Equal irritation comes about when it comes to “import” trucks, such as the Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra…but look at it from the Japanese perspective: If you were going to build a large pickup truck, where better to outsource your work to than the home of the large pickup? Yes, I’m being picky; I know that Accords and Camrys are built in the United States too, and that the U.S. built vehicles are for the USDM markets. I know the sourcing of most of the vehicles sold in the United States. Most people in my generation who are hotrodders and tuners don’t care about nationality…fast is fast, a good car can over-ride where it comes from. That explains the popularity of the Mitsubishi EVO, Subaru WRX and STi, and the love of not only the Nissan GT-R, but the Nissan Skyline GT-R that we never got.
What I fail to understand is the near-xenophobic state of the average automotive enthusiast’s reaction to this. Several responses have come across with three main subjects:
· The car industry can be ignored after X (usually 1972-1974).
· I stay with older vehicles because it’s the only way I can buy American, and I don’t want anything else, ever.
· Newer cars are too complicated, electronic, etc. /it was better in the old days.
I will happily say that anyone who agrees with the first statement require serious help. Chances are, they own a newer vehicle, which they will vehemently claim is just for necessity and doesn’t count. I don’t buy that. Unless you steadfastly will not buy, own, and drive a vehicle in those year ranges, I consider you a hypocrite. Advancements were made, mistakes were made. It is easy to look back on an inferior product twenty years later, figure out what is wrong and fix it. So don’t give me that crap.
It’s easier to understand buying American, and to a degree I can agree with that. But with the way companies have globalized, and the near-level playing field of quality across the board, it is impossible to avoid foreign parts. You can either go by percentage or by corporation’s location. There is no failure, as Chad laments, but a change, progress, that isn’t comfortable to a majority, apparently, but has to happen in order to adapt and survive. And in a theme that will occur a couple of times here, the lack of imagination with what has been given is concerning. I am always at a loss for words when I get the weird looks after I suggest non-mainstream projects. So many vehicle platforms, so little love shared…
I want to tie in the third statement into Brian’s topic. This is a particularly sore subject for me. Here at BangShift, my tastes and thought processes are presented in an open forum, and unlike a lot of other forums I am or have been members of, I don’t notice the “you shouldn’t be doing that” or “you’re wasting your time” arguments that I get elsewhere. It’s no secret that I have a preference for non-mainstream cars, but there’s a reason for that: MAINSTREAM CARS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE, AND IT IS THE OLDER GENERATION TO BLAME.
Think about that for a second. There is no way in hell that I, a 30-year-old veteran in college, could afford to buy a Chevelle, Mustang 73-earlier, F-body 74-earlier, pre-’74 Mopar…they are priced through the damn stratosphere, let alone out of the range of a kid who is wanting to do his first project, or they are such a bucket that it’s financially irresponsible to build. I started building cars when I was 13, with my second car, a ’79 
Cutlass, and over the years I’ve done accessible cars that could be acquired reasonably: ’73 Mercury Comet, ’79 Caprice Coupe, ’81 Dodge Mirada, ’83 Chrysler Imperial, ’87 Monte Carlo SS, and that’s just a fraction of the list. None of the vehicles were over $5000 to purchase, and all ran and drove right off of the bat. But with possible exceptions of the Comet and the Monte Carlo, every other car on the list raises eyebrows with most of the enthusiast group, and for the same reasons: they are smog-era cars, they had all but no performance leanings, the most powerful one (Monte Carlo) made 180hp stock. You want to know where I stand on this? Okay…where is the imagination? Where is the creativity? Don’t tell me it’s gone from the younger generation: anyone who looked at a bone-stock Honda Civic and thought, “Hmmm…” and can make it run 11’s or better and make it carve corners like an Italian supercar has the talent. Don’t tell me that it’s impossible to make a Fox-body LTD hustle, it’s been done. Don’t tell me a four-door can’t be fast, Brian’s Caprice and my Diplomat are proof. Don’t tell me domestic FWD can’t be done…ever thought to shove the L67 3.8 V6 into a late-80’s LeSabre coupe, doing it up as a LeSabre Grand National and go hunting? GM and Ford even have FWD based V8’s! All that’s missing is the idea of reverse-engineering problems out of the vehicles and making them perform well above and beyond expectations. But that encourages a rash of discouragement from the general enthusiast group, who only wants to see the end of the project, the pretty and fast car, and not the undertaking, not the work involved, which is more important.
And on that note, anyone who discourages or badmouths anyone who is into imports, tuners, etc. just based on their vehicle choice is just as at fault. My best automotive memories come from hanging around a Subaru group based out of Pacific Automotive Imports in Parkland, Washington. They are legit car freaks, guys who wrench, tune, thrash and do it all over again. They didn’t care that I didn’t own a Subaru. They loved the fact that I took my Mirada to an autocross and beat it nearly to death. They aren’t even Subaru-loyal…my friend Alan has a project ’62 Galaxie that has a kustom vibe to it; two other friends from PiA, Cody and Ritchie, are Mustang guys at heart. That kind of camaraderie is seriously absent from the automotive world lately, it seems. Earlier this spring, I took my Imperial to the DICE Alliance car show in Prescott, Arizona. And all I can remember of the show is the owner of an early Mustang walking up to me at my car and politely informing me that the parking was meant “for show cars only” with the intention that I wasn’t supposed to be there. That kind of attitude is what has driven the younger generation’s “f*ck you” attitude and inability to mesh with the older generation’s way of thinking, and for that, I am unapologetic. It’s deserved.
Another problem is that parts got expensive, and that’s because, in my eyes, the Boomer/X generations overvalued what they thought they had. The “muscle car boom” of the mid-80s to mid-90s ramped up prices for everything: restoration parts, aftermarket parts, cars. The engine that is in my Imperial was built from the remains of the 318 that had powered my Mirada. The cost, just in parts, to rebuild that engine set me back nearly two thousand dollars, and it isn’t that impressive of an engine, even after the build. Pricing a healthy small block from a crate company (I’ll use BluePrint Engines’ 408ci stroker Mopar small-block as an example for this for this) is about six grand for a useable block, and pushing ten grand for a complete engine that sits about 500-ish horsepower, the accepted line to serious performance these days. It’s easy to dream up power combinations, but it’s expensive with a capital “F” to make it a reality. And I’ll stand by that. Budget builds are still at least $3500 and upwards to do right., and that still does not count anything else the car needs. Turbos cost money. Superchargers cost money. Nitrous costs money, over and over and over again. But is the problem too few suppliers or too little demand? General Motors has had the E-Rod program out for a while now, and I’ve seen it in action, installed in David Freiburger’s ’79 Camaro, but it’s about $7500 for the LS3 based system, and that price will climb for the 427 and the LSA motors, and that is kind of discouraging when you’re a 17-year-old with a ’80 Malibu with a dead 305.
I spent part of the morning I wrote this talking with a student at my school. He offered some insight into some of the issues he has. His ride is an SVT Focus that is set up for handling, and he has had an LS-swapped FC-gen Mazda RX7 in his past. He voiced that part of the issues are the discriminations of non-standard cars and the absolute lack of guidance to the younger generations. I completely agree. I had an automotive upbringing, but that is not the normal anymore. I remember a friend of mine, Joshua, who had parents who constantly warned him that if he did anything to his car that they would take it away, even when it made sense to do it…like buying tires or flushing the twenty-year-old brake fluid out of his ’78 LeBaron. I had auto repair classes in high school, but each school I went to shut down the programs within a few years. Hot rodding isn’t dead to the newer generation, but those who are trying to learn are being smothered by all sides, it seems. Another student I talked to was into cars, but the attitudes his father and his group of friends discouraged him so much that for the most part, he doesn’t want to be involved anymore. That’s sad.
The stigma that shop work is dirty, harmful, and low in society doesn’t encourage newcomers to get involved. The stigma that people who work on their own cars are lower socially, who can’t afford a newer car or are up to illegal things, is still rather prevalent. Older generations don’t like what the younger generations are building. The accusations that late GenX and Millenials are lazy, entitled brats who care more about their phones and video games are just as blatantly wrong as saying that all OIF/OEF veterans are PTSD cases that are prone to violence. It is the SAME THING, stereotyping, and it’s a cop out.
It’s easy to wax nostalgic about the way things were, and the way things oughta be should simply be an opinion. But in both of these cases, what is needed is less instant judging and more careful analysis of the situation. I will handily admit that most of this is a rant, but in writing this, I hope to at least shine some light on these issues, and hopefully spur on thought that changes into action. There is still hope, and there will always be the determined few who will carry on regardless of what happens…the ’75 Camaro in the parking lot of my campus gives me hope. Meanwhile, I’m gonna go crawl under my Imperial and get back to work.
I agree that “cool” and mainstream stuff is way too expensive, My dad has been looking around for a new ride to wrench on not a major project but something he can tinker with and put to good use. Nearly everything he’s found locally is either ridiculously over priced or a total POS. I’m very proud of my Belvedere. When I started looking for a project I knew I couldn’t be too picky because I could only afford so much. I ended up purchasing my car because it’s an mid 60’s American car with a V8 that runs mint and needs no body work. Yeah it’s a four door but if it was the same car in a 2 door body style it would have been at least 10x more expensive then it was. At first I thought people wouldn’t like it because its a four door, but I’ve heard nothing but positive things. I think people are just happy to see a young guy that is into old cars driving around.
Yeah son … so quit trying so hard to be ‘ Cool ‘ and give creativity and individuality ( the most basic trademarks of the hot rodder ) a try !
As Brian Eno so well put it ; ” The hardest thing you’ll ever do in life is to be yourself ”
So stop with the easy route of following what ever the current trend is … and give genuine individuality a try . You might just find it a hell of a lot more satisfying in the long run . Because oh young one … in reality …. ‘ Cool ‘ isn’t in fact very COOL at all when you stand back and take it into perspective . What 99.999% of ‘ Cool ‘ is in fact is Sheep/Lemmings following the crowd
Fact is I can think of about 30 cars just off the top of my head that both from a mechanical as well as price standpoint that currently nobody wants that would make for a great performance car project ….
Exactly what I’m saying, I could have wanted to fit in to the crowd and bought a fox mustang (zzzzzzzzzz) but instead I went with a big blue 4 door Mopar, why? Because I thought it was bitchin.
Well …. as a ‘ Boomer ‘ on one hand I can sympathize with this authors complaint that prices have gone too high for most of everything even the least bit desirable on the market . The days of buying a used ( rather that collectable ) Ferrari for $7,500 and then being able to do 90% of the work yourself are gone . The days of last years Racing parts becoming this years junkyard find and suitable for road use for pennies on the dollar have disappeared .
BUT ! Don’t go dumping all the blame on us Boomers . Simple fact is much of the reason the prices on parts and labor etc have skyrocketed is because of the younger generations preference for the POYW ( pull out your wallet ) method of hot rodding rather than the age old DIY . Much of the blame also falls on the younger generations shoulders for them not being willing to look for something different in the way of a junkyard find on the cheap … rather choosing to go the Trendy Wendy Whats Popular Today tact .. and then as the author is doing complain because its soooo expensive .
Part of the problem ( actually much of it ) is the complete lack of creativity amongst the younger so called ‘ hot rodders ‘ as well as the lack of patience to learn the skills needed .. preferring to rely once again on the ol Mastercard … Wallet or Daddy’s checkbook to get the desired end result
As far as the authors comments on ‘ Globalization ‘ well …. what he’s said here is not worth commenting on specifically because by his words he has exposed his complete and utter ignorance as to the effect of ‘ Globalization ‘ on the US economy and job market . A little study in Economics 101 might help illuminate his knowledge a bit but at the moment he is clueless …. spewing out the ‘ Politically Correct ‘ dogma/Attitudes&Platitudes rather than taking the time to truly try and understand all the complicated issues involved
To be honest …. IMO there was little or nothing of value or insight to be found in this bit of diatribe . Just one more unaware and uninformed individual attempting to equate his/her personal experiences and opinions as somehow being World scope and profound when in fact it all adds up to yet another Celebration of the Inane . Not worth the time I invested in reading or commenting on it … and definitely not worth the space on BangShifts pages
My head hurts…Not sure if it was from that article or GuitarSlingers Vulcan Mind-Meld he put on me. Thanks for saving me the time of typing out my thoughts.
Y’know what man? I’m actually offended by you. I don’t get offended easily. I’m gonna go on a little rant here about my experience, but I want to set it straight that building cars has been the most fun I’ve been involved in, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything! I’ve had gardening and farm jobs since I was 12 years old, and sunk all kinds of money into building myself a nice ’71 pickup truck. I would’ve loved a muscle car, but those are all sitting in some collector’s 17 billion square foot garage. My dad took no interest, nobody took interest, and soon I found myself hiring a mechanic to come out and help me put that truck together. ON MY OWN DOLLAR. Everything I did was on my own dollar, save the set of wheels my dad bought me for my birthday one year. I don’t consider myself at the level of the “f- you” generation, but I definitely thought of a few mean things when I read your Daddy’s mastercard comment. I agree, prices are ridiculous, even for old pickups. I don’t know what I’d do if it had been a musclecar. Prices have skyrocketed because Boomers have money, and are starting to retire, and spend that money on cars. Not because 15-year old kids have money, because they DON’T. For any future builds, I’m forced to look at other sub-cultures, such as BMW’s, VW’s, tuners, dubbers, etc. because they are industries that cater to kids, and kid’s financial situations. I can’t afford to keep up with my hobby and first love, when I’m trying to compete with rich baby boomers and their playthings.
I agree with Derek here.
Whoever has a lot of money and not a lot of time or skill can become a checkbook rodder – it’s not exactly confined to any generation. And teenagers are probably likely to be the least likely to be able to be checkbook rodders – if they’re spoiled rich kids, they’re more likely to have Daddy write a check for a new car.
As for the younger generation not being creative and not learning how to work on things on their own – I have two things to say to that. One, learning to work on cars can take a lifetime; it’s not reasonable to expect the average 30 year old to have learned as much about cars as someone who’s spent 45 years learning on cars.
Two – I’m 35 myself. Out of the big projects I’ve worked on, is a ’72 Chevy pickup with a 4.8 V8 out of a U-haul truck using homemade mounts and Camaro take-off exhaust parts not creative enough? If not, how about a ’66 Dart four door with a turbocharged slant six? 😀
( this is mainly aimed at Derek )
1) Know what ? I couldn’t care less if your precious little ego was offended by my telling it like it is . Suck it up and grow a pair . You may be the rare exception … but you’re sure as hell not the rule when it comes to your generation and younger
2) Sorry to disillusion you and burst your misguided bubble .. but its not just the so called ‘ Rich Kids ‘ who’s daddy’s pay for every little want they may have . That trend has found its way well into the Middle Class as well as reaching deep into the lower and Blue Collar classes . What ? You really think all that Credit Card debt is mounting up on ‘ survival ‘ purchase ? Get a clue ! More debt is racked up on hobbies and wants … not needs
3) In case you haven’t noticed ( and obviously you haven’t ) 75% of todays 25 and unders would rather stick their spoiled noses in their iPads Smartphones etc rather than use their heads … learn a skill ( including how to drive ) or do some actual work
4) Again … in case you missed the point ( subtlety not your forte ? ) the majority of my comment was aimed at the author …. not you or any one else here . The generalizations I’m using aimed at what he wrote about … not you . Or are you unaware of the fact that you are NOT the center of the universe ?
———————
As to Mr Cramer … very little of the above applies to you as well …. though I’d add for you both a hearty congratulations on choosing the path not chosen when it comes to your projects … BUT for the love of god quit your pathetic whining and just get on with it .
What son ? You think being envious of someone in my position ( financially ) is in any way shape or form going to better your status ?
Allow one who’s learned a few lessons in life share a modicum of wisdom with you that if absorbed will save you a lifetime of heartache and misery
NEVER be envious of Anyone . Period ! Make the best of what you’ve got . Be proud of what you accomplish …. and move forward as well as life , circumstances … and yes a bit of luck will allow .
I’m sorry for making you so worked up, I realize that I may be an exception. Partly because of my work ethic, mostly because of luck, I was able to have a job that’s supported my hobbies, and now my education, which is also my responsibility. Most of my friends struggle to find work every day, to move on with their lives. I guess I took it a little hard when I see people disrespecting my hard work, as well as many of my friends. As for point 3, I consider myself pretty in touch with 25-and unders, just like you understand your age group better than I would, so I’m not going to argue, you can think what you want to think about that. Adressing point 4, I wasn’t arguing what the author said, (and I apologize for clogging up this thread with a sidetracked argument,) I was mostly referring to statements of yours such as this:
“BUT ! Don’t go dumping all the blame on us Boomers . Simple fact is much of the reason the prices on parts and labor etc have skyrocketed is because of the younger generations preference for the POYW ( pull out your wallet ) method of hot rodding rather than the age old DIY.”
All I wish to say is that it’s certainly none of me or anyone I know in my age group that’s driving up prices in this hobby, simply because we don’t have any money. Again, maybe I don’t know enough about the habits of other age groups to make a case against any of them, so I won’t comment on who favors your “POYW method” the most.
bla bla bla old man bla bla bla the new world order bla bla bla OBAMA bla bla…
The world is globalized. It’s done. It’s not going anywhere. Jobs going overseas? They’re already there. It sucks. I’ve been a victim of it myself in the IT industry. It is what it is. YOU “stole” jobs from US in Canada, when you closed automotive plants like St Thomas, which sold Crown Victorias, cars only geriatrics buy, without putting new lines in. As you said, Economics 101. When you build crap, crap doesn’t sell, you lose jobs.
You can sit on car websites and whine about young punks racing Hondas all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that good ol’ fashioned hot rodding that you grew up with does not exist anymore. You either A) are rich, and can afford to find a muscle-car-era or hot-rod era car …. B) You’re like me, or the author above, kinda poor but prefer domestic, so you find stuff like 80s Monte Carlos, Caprices, etc etc and try in vain to hot rod those (and receive all the scorn and insults as a result) or … C) You run an import, focus less on going fast in a straight line, and spend about the same money.
All three are hot rodding. All three involve car enthusiasts who love what they do. All three deserve respect. I don’t care what country the car or parts are from. They are not “what’s wrong with America,” no matter how many times Grandpa sits in the corner shaking his head repeating “you just don’t get it. You’re killing America bla bla bla.”
To be honest, there was little or nothing of value or insight to be found in this bit of diatribe…..
A beg to differ on a few points GuitarSlinger….
The increase in the value of mainstream cars is largerly due to Boomers/ X Gen-ers coming of age and finally have the money they want to spend on cars they have wanted to have when they were younger, but couldnt have. Just look at all of the higher end car auctions. Plain jane middle of the road v8 first gen F-Bodies are now 20k cars when 15 years ago they were only 8k at best.
Couple to that, Boomers, and X Gen-ers are a greater majority of our home ownership and tax base for school districts. It is this base of our communities who have a much greater say in what school boards approve and approve what programs get cut or saved when it comes to down to trimming school budgets. I too am the same age as Bryan, and just like him saw my high school autoshop program go by the wayside, just like many other districts around me, all in the name of saving money.
EastEnder – BS .. plain and simple . Fact is those prices are going up because a lot of folks … not just boomers ( not even close if you’re paying attention to the Auction stats ) are either dumb enough … desperate enough … or MMtB enough ( more money than brains ) to over pay for cars not worth one tenth of their current selling prices
Seen the amount of $$$$$ being shelled out by Techno Wonk 20 somethings for classics ? Been watching how many 75+ are dumping a ___ load into the retro market ?
No son . You want to over generalize and place the blame somewhere …. chalk it up to the overall MMtB Syndrome thats ruling the roost right now right across the generations … not blaming it on any one just because we’ve been in the workforce longer and have more money than you at this point in history
As I just told Matt Cramer above … Envy will get you nowhere …
BTW Want to place some blame for both of our AutoShop and in fact ALL shop programs going the way of the DoDo ? Place that one firmly on GB and GWB and their ‘ No Child Left Behind ‘ programs … which in fact have left a multitude of children very far behind .
Take into consideration two factors… First the extremely high price for any car these days… When a bone stock 95 Ford Ranger costs $4000 with close to 200,000 miles on the clock there is something wrong.
The other is the Pull Out My Wallet mentality from my experience working in an Autozone it is due to the fact that people are working twice as hard to stay afloat and don’t have the time to learn or figure out where another route may be. There are a few of the “creative” guys that come in every once in awhile to work out a problem. But for the most part it’s the guy that needs to slap an alternator on in the parking lot so he can get to work in the morning. Because there is no time to live let alone fix a defective part.
I’m working 60-80 hours a week between two jobs barely making ends meet and still trying to find time to squeeze the family time, repair on my 30 year old daily drivers (because I can’t afford anything decent), and the rebuild of an 85 mustang in.
I take offense to the term “hypocrite” I stated at the end of my second comment that I’m open-minded. I could care less what you or anyone else drives. By the way, my daily driver is a ’66 Chevelle 2dr sedan (modified: later small block, 5spd od trans.etc) purchased right before I retired(2011) running & driving with new paint for $2500, locally (Eastern W.Va.) I changed it to my liking but could have left it alone. My main truck is a ’68 Chevy CST 1/2 ton, that was my fathers and handed down to me, my son and back to me again (is that cheating?) It has had several transformations over the years. My wife drives a 1971 Chevelle station wagon, we just recently put a 2004r od trans in it. There are other old cars in my ‘fleet’, the newest is a 1973 Jeep Wagoneer that stays in the shop until winter. There are some others: 2 ’67 Camaro’s and a ’66 Chevy II, etc. These cars were bought years ago for the going prices in accordance with the economy! All need some work but they are drivers. We paid $4500 in 1981 for my really nice ’67 Camaro. That was high dollar at the time. My point is these cars are out there (EBAY, etc) if you are willing to work on them,they are a damn sight easier to find parts for with all the repo catalogs….no more junk-yarding (sad) Sure the ultra nice,super, resto, show cars are high dollar expensive, but are they really driven daily…constantly?! Peace Out and said with no insults.
Nice write up Bryan! I was going to comment on both Brian’s and Chad’s blogs, but stopped half way through each as it was getting far longer than a regular comment. Many shades of grey in there.
I still blame the boomers, we learned the check book ways from them (and it wasn’t the kids de-funding auto and wood shop…). It’s hard to go junkyard shopping to go racing when the boomer with cash is going to buy better parts than you could ever get out of the junkyard. The only real low cost ridiculous HP return option out there these days is the junkyard LS engines and an Ebay turbo, and that has only really come about in the last five or six years as the LS engine finally aged enough they are hitting junkyards in quantity. If LS’s aren’t your thing, then you are hanging out in the wind if you want to win races. I’m a big time junkyard’r, I mix and mash parts, put things into cars never intended for them, etc. and even then the “savings” of junkyarding is marginal compared to purchasing a new part (like a crate motor) for a small margin more that will perform considerably better and more reliably.
You aren’t finding forged rods, pistons, nice aluminum heads in the junkyard for a classic V8. Paying for clean up and machine work on junkyard parts puts you practically at the cost of new ready to go parts and the new ready to go parts will have significantly more potential HP in them. Why waste my money on junkyard cast rods? Cast pistons? Iron heads?
I think Roadkill and Fast and loud,have alot of genuine enthusiastic followers..and they arent harsh on alternative bodystyles in those shows..so maybe we will see more cars coming through with the youngsters.
So hot rodding is expensive, hard to learn, and you get no respect for the car you selected to work on. You may be too young to know this, but that is the same as it always has been- no matter how you may view the past. Sure, maybe a 55 chevy could be had for $1000 back in 1980, but to a 16 year old at the time, it is no different than today- we had no $$! It could have cost $1000000- would have been the same to me. The car guys in my school (graduated in 1983) were not cool nor were they looked up to. My old man was a former mechanic who did not condone my hot rodding. Sorry, I see nothing new in your whole writeup. Quit worrying about others- do what you like. Who cares about others opinions?
I agree orange65, who cares what others think! Just enjoy what you own and drive it like you stole it!
I think at 61 I am a boomer. I must have done something wrong ’cause I don’t have buckets of money. I love cars and drag racing. I totally get a kick out of the imports but don’t have the mechanical apptitude for that sort of stuff. I found a low 13 second 93 Camaro LT1 – got a little over $3500 into it and hope to have a lot of fun
Thanks for writing this Bryan.
I started out the same way…I built a 20 year old pickup truck when I was a kid, it was cheap and it was all I had to work with. Fortunately Chevy stuff was cheap back then, and it’s still relatively cheap, if you know what to look for, and where to look for it. Shop prices and new parts are still rather expensive, unfortunately.
I really don’t know why more younger guys aren’t into cars, but it’s obvious that nowadays messing with cars is a rather specialized activity…it used to be much more common for kids to do in the 1950s-80s.
But also, there are mainstream cars available for a reasonable price, I just sold an early mustang, which was a really good car for a kid to start with, and what do you know…the purchaser was a mom and dad buying a car for their son! They’re out there, but it does take a lot of looking, and patience. Of course, if you want to just jump on the first car that lands in your lap (like you and I and most guys do), you’re gonna be building some non-optimal oddball, and you’ll catch hell for it, but you definitely will learn a lot.
One thing I’ve noticed as I get older, I get more “refined” in my tastes…I realize what I like, and what I don’t like. So you probably won’t catch me building a Mirada. But I do like to see guys building oddball cars, one of my favorites is Randal’s Buick. Learning how to do stuff, and accomplishing what you set out to do, doesn’t need a specific platform, you can do that on anything.
Bryan,
Thanks for the well-written and heartfelt response to Chad & Brian’s columns. You brought up a lot of interesting points and there is definitely plenty of discussion material available. You did more than stir the pot… you cooked up a whole ‘nuther meal. Well done.
Guitarslinger,
You stated:
“BUT ! Don’t go dumping all the blame on us Boomers . Simple fact is much of the reason the prices on parts and labor etc have skyrocketed is because of the younger generations preference for the POYW ( pull out your wallet ) method of hot rodding rather than the age old DIY .”
huh?
really?
You think today’s youth pulls out their wallets? Hell, they don’t even HAVE wallets! If you want to really take a look at a checkbook enthusiast, my guess it is going to be a person who is old enough to be going through (or has recently gone through) his or her “identity crisis” years and just had to have a car that rekindled the days of their youth (whether they actually had a car of their dreams when they are younger is irrelevant).
Guitarslinger, your “BUT ! Don’t go dumping all the blame on us Boomers . Simple fact is much of the reason the prices on parts and labor etc have skyrocketed is because of the younger generations preference for the POYW ( pull out your wallet ) method of hot rodding rather than the age old DIY .” comment just makes you seem old and out of the loop. Do you not realize that most teenagers are unable to find part time jobs to be able to afford ANYTHING? How the hell are they supposed to pull out their wallets to buy car parts that are severely overpriced when many of them, if they ARE able to find work, have to use their paychecks for other bills, to help support their family (you know, since there’s so many people unemployed and minimum wage is sh*t), or for transportation just to get to and from school and work? Most places won’t hire people under 18 anymore because of labor laws; they can only work so many hours at a time, have to leave by a certain time, can’t perform certain jobs, etc. It IS the boomer’s fault that prices are so steep. Boomers have money now and want the vehicles they remember from their youth, artificially inflating the prices due to demand. I’ve been looking for a 1970 Chevelle for over 10 years that wasn’t in sh*tty shape so that I could work on it, but even when a sub-par vehicle was found, it still wasn’t affordable due to the cost of parts and the sellers knowing there’s some sucker out there that’ll pay what they’re asking. I’m not saying it’s wrong to want a vehicle that has always seemed out of reach; I’m just saying that as a generation, someone needs to finally take some responsibility.
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/4041856377.html
I am a boomer and I generally agree with Mr. Taggert.
As to Me. Slinger’s comments about globalization; “Globalization” was brought to you by GE, GM, Ford, Caterpillar, P&G, General Dynamics, and the other USA Fortune 100 Co.s starting from the 60’s to today. So stick to what little you know about cars and leave serious topics like global economy, fair trade, economics, the fate of mankind to those who have the ability for critical thought.
How are so many blind to see that there are a lot of good ’66-’72 muscle era cars out there to be had in the 5k range. I have got tired of hearing this constantly and started posting craigslist deals on my instagram while I am looking for a ’67-’72 C10 SNB. Part of the fun is the hunt for “the” car. Granted you will not find a ’67 Camaro or ’70 ‘cuda to drive in this price range but no one is really expecting that. Although, 10 years ago I did get a ’70 barracuda gran coupe for $4500 and put another $2k to get it going and put 35k miles on it driving it every day. That said, deals are out there, you have to look though. I have been daily driving (80 mile round trip) a variety of under 5K vehicles the last 15 years. My current is a ’72 C10 short stepside that looks great and drives nice & I gave $3500 for it 40k miles ago. I tried the import thing to save gas, an Acccord and a Integra, I hated driving them.
Also, if I had to get a later than ’72 to drive I would probably just give it up and get some new appliance white turd. Part of the fun is daily getting to drive a car/truck with such cool looking lines/stance, cool old metal dash with the old style gauges, metal inside on the doors, the feel/smell of an old car, the open air feeling with windows down & wing vents, not to mention the fun of the acceleration and dumping the clutch in something you know you can fix on the cheap. You can’t replace that with anything else.
Also, I’m in my mid 30’s so I am not a retired guy who bought in the ’70s, my 3, 69 Dart, 69 Road Runner & 72 C10 I have bought within the past 3 years.
I agree about liking the old stuff….I tried driving the 93 crown vic again for a short time, and it just bored me to tears. So I finished my 57 suburban, and I’ve put thousands and thousands of miles on it in a few short months. It is a low budget ride, all things considered, I paid a grand for it and didn’t spend a whole lot on it, especially when you consider $/yr is well under 1000 average over the 15 years it took me to build it.
And I love how it looks and drives, and apparently a lot of other folks like seeing it, I don’t think anything else has got as many positive comments in such a short time.
Well said Bryan, those who say there was little value to your rant are the ones who are creating the rift. They are the ones who shit on my Fury because the engine bay is black and the car isnt. They are the ones who scoff at the 11 second Civc even though it just smoked the hell out of damn near everything at the track.
Boomers drove the prices up on the muscle cars in the late 80’s trying to relive thier youth and Barret Jackson and televison had jacked prices even higher since then on everything that is old and somewhat desireable.
And I want one of these guys to come here and show me any youth who can pull out a wallet and build a car. Frankly, thats just a stupid caomment that should be stricken from the record. I can barely pull out my wallet to buy toilet paper and food…but I still manage to make do with what I have and have fun with it. Those that are “pulling out the wallet” are rich people with more money than skill. The rich and famous can do those things…I dont know a single gear head in this town that has not busted their ass one way or another to build their ride or fund their project. Are they out here, sure I guess….But I sure as shit aint met them.
Rant on brother! Rant on! You and I and many others here are cut from the same cloth. We will forge ahead and either change the culture or keep on doing out thing. Not looking at the past as a guide for what should be, but making new avenues for those who follow i nour footsteps. Screw the nay sayers.
Soo..maybe the diffrence between 1975 and today,is taht the musclecars and the cruisers have been more expensive..but in those years between,alot of those cars have been junked..because they where soo cheap.
Here it is 1969, I’m an 18 yr,. old drooling over that 1969 Z28, Mustang GT 500, or 440 Cuda. can’t afford it. So I go to the used car lot an buy a 1957 2dr. Belair Hardtop no less. So now it is 2013, I am an 18 yr.old drooling over the NEW 2013 Camaro, or Mustang, or Challenger and still can’t afford it. So I go to the used car lot and buy a 2001 Fox body Mustang, with a V8 no less. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE ????
Those who wax nostalgic had parents that thought their kids were long haired freaks on dope that would never find a job and the last great car was a La Salle.
The Fox Body Mustang ended in 1994. You’re showing your age.
And if you can walk onto a used car lot in Canada and show me a 2001 Mustang *GT* (as in, V8), for like $4000, certified and e-tested, I will kiss you and then go buy it tomorrow.
Unless you want a V6 piece of crap. Which I don’t.
Somewhat-new American vehicles with performance potential are virtually impossible to find without either being a turd, or spending a ton of money. And THAT is why “kids these days” buy Civics.
Why is there the need to blame someone? The world has changed, evolved, whatever, so yesterday’s $400 Mustang is todays $2000 Fox body. Baby Boomers have put themselves in a position to be able to afford what they want and they are buying the cars of their youth which, with the help of supply and demand, has pushed those cars out of the hands of entry level folks. Sorry you can’t afford a Chevelle. I can’t afford a new Cobra Jet Stocker or even a new repop’d ’32 Ford. Waahh!! Who should I blame for that? Boomers built themselves a good a life and for good or bad, contributed to the country as it exists today. Most of those folks didn’t graduate college at 30. They worked from the jump, built business and climbed the corporate ladder. Maybe this generation should take some responsibility for itself and maybe realize that they might have to sacrifice and work to have cool stuff like old cars. Then again there’s always the Powerball.
Yeah I’m a boomer for sure……….and stuck lots of dough in my last project.
That’s what you can do when the kids are gone.
I tried to have every part Made in USA that went into the build …..but as Bryan mentioned it’s tough to do……..the starter was an off shore piece.
Didn’t know it until I unpacked it.
My current ride reflects what I would’ve had back in the day………if I could’ve afforded.
All my stuff was junk back then.
You’re never too old to have a happy childhood.
You guys bashing one another over nothing are two drinks behind.
Plan a road trip caper. Take it. Have a Ball. Sidestep the clutch, make some genuine real noise, hustle women along the way.
Outwit the Cops, Get away with it. Create memories.
Show some Class. Life IS short.
I am a boomer as well. I am sorry that in 1983 I had the smarts to purchase a very rough 1970 Chevelle SS convertible for $3,000.00. I apologize for taking 4+ years and mega$$$ to restore it. (Remember, no repro parts back then). I’m sorry I still own it and didn’t sell it during the Barrett-Jackson driven hyper-inflation. What I’m really sorry about is the fact that the “globalization” you speak about cost me a $65k/yr. job (my company moved production to Mexico). I apologize that you may not have been around to purchase one of these cars at a reasonable price back then and HOLD ON TO IT, like I did, but that is not my fault! To everyone that blames ALL the “Boomers” for driving up prices, you can all KISS MY ASS!
OH,PLEASE, what a bunch of wwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa
popular cars have always been out of the reach of the high school kid. grandma’d base car that looked like the powerfull monster was cheap and the kid might have scored that, with a 307 2 barrel and nothing else going for it.. I was in h/s in the mid to late 80’s the hot cars where not cheap then, the beat to the edge of there lifes buckets of bolts were in reach but still were not cheap..
The muscle cars going through the roof,pricewise I agree with, but it’s no different than the house a baby boomer bought in 71 for 22k that today is 350+k . other than you don’t need a muscle car.
Clearly the Author has never added up the cost in LABOR to bring those priced out of most peoples hands cars back to like new, and it’s not the resto parts cost, most times they are half of what the same part on a new car cost, go price a 2013 Camaro hood, and then a 1970 chevelle hood, then try to still say it’s the parts cost.. The n.o.s. PARTS FOR THE MUSCLECAR HEAVY HITTERS are big money, but those cars are huge money, no different than walking into a chevy dealer and pricing out a 6.2 ls for a Camaro and a ZL1 ls engine one is much more than the other, as it’s the big dog..
Date coded parts and their cost are silly, but go to an auction see what incorrect parts do to a car that’s a carbon copy of the correct LS6 car.. I find it silly, but is the original mona lisa worth more than the copy??
The old guard having an issue with the younger car guys have been going on since the first hot rods, The rodders didn’t car for the muscle car guys, the muscle car guys didn’t care for the vans, the ricers are in the same boat.. That 30y/o and his off kilter cars have it made compaired to 20 years ago. HE HAS NO IDEA.. Before the DARE TO BE DIFFERENT movement, any odd ball car build was treated like the kid in class with coke bottle glasses. THE authors generation has it made in this area..
The ratrod and drive your junk change that has happened since the late 80’s makes it easier to show up at shows/cruises and not get laughed right out of there.. yes there are still jackwagons that make comments you maynot care for but in general, work in progress or not perfect rides are more accepted now than ever before, almost like the first days of the hot rods when everyones cars where junk , difference now is you have the budget junker along side the pampered show car.. at least now they don’t turn you away if your car isn’t to their “standards”. The author should read the story in hotrod when “dear ole dads” rod was turned away from a goodguys show because it wasn’t showy enough.. KID you got it made..
The younger gen having no interest in cars, isn’t so much the older car guys blowing them off, That my friend has been going on for longer than you’ve been alive. The reasons younger guys/gals for the mostpart are not into building cars is many, here are the highlights 1)cost to put one on the road, a basic p.o.s. 4 cyl for a kid is 1500+ a year in insurance 2)neighborhoods, many can’t have a wreck in the driveway/yard and work on it for months before they get a lic to drive, or after they do and want to drive something more than moms car, today there is H.O.A. and bylaws that many have to deal with, no non running vehicles, no unreg vehicles, etc etc. 3)The meaning of a car, in the last 10 years everythings changed, before that you needed to be out and about to be with your friends to talk to them and hang out, now they can talk to them 24/7 either on the cell or through texting no need to drive over to there friends house to hang, they can play against each other from 2 different countries, texting has taken the need to get away from parents so they don’t hear what you might be up to . so the car being a life changing event and FREEDOM is all but gone. 4) driving laws and the way police handle things now, At one time you could monkey around donuts/smoke the tires/rollbacks/etc and if a cop caught you, you most likely got a stern talking to and a warning instead of a ticket, of course that depended on how you speaked and acted towards the cop.. today it be ticket and possable a driving to endanger ticket (loss of lic)you are lucky it not get your car towed. and then you have everyone with a phone to call the cops and report your plate if you are monkey’n around 5) most my age had parents(dads) that worked on their own cars hot rods or not, as they were very basic machines and with basic tools you could fix most anything, todays kids have parents for the most part that couldn’t fix todays cars, nevermind the total change in service vehicles used to need and todays cars that don’t need anything, the days of cap and rotor,plugs wires,fuelfilters, carb settings, choke settings, antifreeze changing and everything else is either gone because the parts are long gone from use or because they get changed at 100000 miles if at all. so the kid never gets to see dad under the hood and be nosey and ask what he’s doing, if dad is still part of the household at all
6)Todays cars and even the ones that most kids would end up with are to refined, Ask any biker what they love about riding and it’s the wind in their face and the raw power under their ass, even the cars that were not fast let you know you matted the gas with the nose rise,and twist, hit the brakes and it dived some and you moved more in the seat, even tho the car stopped a lot slower than even todays econobox, there was road noise it wasn’t a soundproofed cabin, the engine let you know it was huffing today you have to wind most to the moon for them to let you know by sound that they are even running,
7) and lastly look LOOK at cars for the most part made since 2000 they all look like an egg rolling down the road anything that add style is tossed as it hurts in the windtunnel. I was 8 when my dad brought home the ’77 cutlass home on the stations wrecker as his replacement for the 73 and first time I saw it, I was like “I want that” and that was before he hopped it up, todays kids that are just old enough to drive, when they were the same age as I was when that 77 came home, would be looking at a 2000ish car most likely a family car or eck a minivan, anyone think an 8 year old see’n dad bring home a 2001 Honda civic gonna look at it and say, “I want that” I’m thinking NO!!.. . look around today a kids priced vehicle is a 200 thousand mile soul less metal box on wheels, not much to get the blood boiling.
So in slowing you can blame the older generation for the cool cars cost, the snobbish treatment, parts cost and anything else you really want, but that’s all B/S.. technology has made the cars meaning of freedom a thing of the past. That connection is all but gone. remember respect is a 2 way street some older rodders may be rude and snobbish, that’s nothing new, but many younger don’t respect anyone or anything that isn’t theirs.. I’d never even think of leaning or sitting on someone elses car, today they don’t think twice.. not all but way more than I’d ever think would.. many things have changed but most have stayed the same, and if a 318 cost 3500 to build a basic running rebuild you are doing it wrong.. yes a cam and lifter set isn’t 89 bucks any more but the venders are not selling thousands of them anymore like they did when there were tens of thousands on the road., but 3500 is out of line that’s a user error, either added upgraded parts or payed tomuch and/or had work done that for a basic rebuild isn’t called for other than in a mag story..
But the biggest reason kids today are not into cars is no one needs to open the hoods anymore to fix them,or to service them on a yearly basis.. hell most don’t even check the oil manually they wait for a light to tell them to look..
THATS the #1 reason..
if you can “settle” for a non big block true muscle car, you can get in the hobby for not much money.
bought a 66 chevelle 283 for 2500.
69 nova for $500 and a 72 wagon for 700, both were buckets, but running and driving. Learned to weld (not very good at first, just passable now). When funds allow I work on them a little at a time, collecting parts and trading services. None of them are magazine quality, but they’re mine. My dad and I also put together a fun FED for less than 10k. If you’re patient and not in a hurry to have shiny paint, you can still have muscle car era cars and have fun with them.
My ’49 Stude PU has $300 into it so far. Shouldn’t a high-schooler be able to afford that? I have a ’64 El Camino that was $250, a ’72 Corvette that was $4500, all purchased in the last 5-10 years. Attractive cars, pretty close to “main stream”.
The trouble is they will take a lot of work, which a kid who spent his formative years playing video games will not be able to understand or perform, and having acquired few marketable job skills will not be able to pay somebody else to do.
When I’m done performing 20K worth of work on whichever one to make it look like it must have always been that nice, it will then be worth 20K and if you want it from me you’ll have to earn that much money doing something useful and hand it along. Where any of this is so unfair, has me kinda miffed.
today, a kid never see’s dad under the hood of a car, as they really don’t get serviced like they used to.. I’m willing to bet that 90% of car guys/gals got the bug from their dad/uncle/grand dad, under the hood of something and the kid, walking over and asking ,what you doing, and then becoming the tool passer, then helper, today most adults don’t need to touch the car under hood for the lifespan they own it.. yes the car guys do, but the normal everyday parent doesn’t, other than maybe windshield washer fluid. big reason why.. as far as them only playing video games well that’s the fault of parents that are now 50 and under, cause I’ll tell ya, it must suck to be a kid today, ride a bike you are put in a bubble helmet/elbow pads/knee pads, same with skate board/inline skates/roller skates. God help you if they play cops and robbers or cowboys and ingins and have a toy gun or make their hand into the shape of a gun. no one knows anyone anymore so parents won’t let a child play outside until dinner time and go father than their eye sight..
But this was about the cars and younger gens beef and lack of interest..
your listing of cars and their cost might be in your area, but not in every ones..
I did find a beat 78 monty for 800.00 and that’s about as cheap as you’ll find a rear drive car here and I’ll bet the rear frame had issues for that price.. but the buy in is only one small part of the problem.. the bigger ones are the jobs kids used to have to make the cash for that first beater, mow lawns well they could still do that,but many don’t and many homeowners fear them getting hurt working on their land, then paper routes even before newspapers started on their slow death, papers delivery adults started filling that job, snow shoveling could and still do. but that’s season and area limited..
And then we have one of the BIGGER reasons, thos same parents that feel the need to have all that safety crap on their child while riding a bike, want the child in a safe car and most think that means air bags/abs/crush zones and all the other b/s. as that’s how they shop for their cars.. and won’t let their child buy that 800.oo 78 monte as it’s got none of that.. kids have no interest in cars or doing much past video games falls squarely on the parents and the keep them in a bubble of safety crab thinking that has overtaken parenting in the last 20 years..
Those that are into cars and are 14-25 don’t feel the need to sit in a lawn chair and wax about the car all day.. they race them on the street because of track closings or the crazy safety rules, if those in the 50-60-70’s had to add as much crap as you do now, they’d never showed up at a track.. wow shocking this generation for the most part doesn’t.. Imagine telling that parent that wraped the kid in a bubble since birth be told, I’m going to the dragstrip this w-end with my car.. I can guess they’ll find away to ground them, or the car might not start..
Ok, I’ll answer a couple of key points.
1) At no point am I attacking anyone who saved, built, and made their own rides. I have nothing but respect for you guys. Hell, it’s what I’ve been doing pushing ten years now…collecting parts from project cars that didn’t make it to the end and putting a car together. My methods are a lot more old-school than they first appear.
2) The prices you guys are quoting me…they’re off. The last two deals I saw that I (at 30, with a shit income and some skill) are the $300 Malibu that hit the site a few days ago and a rough late-80’s Trans Am for $1100. While I know deals between friends happen, and I’m not doubting builds like Loren’s, those are not the norm that I was referring to. Part of the catch with a kid and a car (provided that they are interested in the first place) is that the car has to be useable. It’s one thing to drag the car home and work on it…but “crazy” is right: Unless you live in the sticks and the neighbors aren’t prone to bitching, it’s extremely difficult for a kid to resto a car in their yard anymore. Only example I can think of is a pair of kids I knew in HS in Colorado Springs in ’99-2000, one had a ’71 Challenger, the other a ’73-4 Cuda. Only occasionally saw those cars, but I know they were fixing them in the ‘Cuda owner’s driveway.
3) Just because the newer vehicle’s styling throws you off doesn’t mean there isn’t a soul there. My last two GM W-bodies (’01 Regal GS and ’06 Monte Carlo SS) had plenty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, fine. But those two otherwise regular “souless metal boxes” had plenty…both would lay two strips of rubber as long as I kept my foot in it, even from the wrong end. I used the Regal as a moneymaker and a bracket car until my ex wife used it to play bumpercars with everything under the sun. The Monte Carlo’s exploits were some of the first things I put on BangShift…two roadtrips in two years, over 87,000+ miles in three years, autocrossing, drag racing, hooning, you name it.
Now, enough defending. I’m stunned to see the responses. I wondered if this would even register on the radar here, and I have to say I’m absolutely floored. I’m not here to bash on anyone. My opinion is what it is, but opinions are like assholes, and it’s evident some think that mine stinks. I’m ok with that. At least these things are being discussed.
For the record, I’m 100% on team Bryan. The rent is too damn high.
Plain and simple, as I said in the other thread, instead of ranting about globalization and taking American jobs and “Obama,” why not try looking at WHY the younger generation went with imports. I’m NOT talking about young guys who AREN’T interested in cars, I’m talking about the ones that ARE, and choose European or Japanese.
Instead of sticking your head in the 1950s sand, LOOK and understand. The cars YOU grew up with and love are harder to find, more expensive, and do different things better or worse than imports.
A lot of car guys are NOT drag racers, they want something that they can drive daily, handles well, and is fun to drive, and won’t cost a fortune. So yes, a Honda is most definitely a better choice than a Cavalier or Neon. The Japanese simply make better compact cars, that’s it, period. And if you’re an autocrosser or a road racer or generally just like turning, while also getting 30 mpg, it’s the way to go.
If you want an AWD turbo car, what’s your American choice? A Sy/Ty? Yeah cuz I can afford one of those. And it’ll fall apart. An Impreza STi won’t.
In most cases, their economy is better. In most cases, their handling is better. In most cases, their quality and fit and finish are WAY better. And in some cases, the parts are as affordable or CHEAPER than American cars.
I’m 32. I love muscle cars, and American V8/RWD cars in general. In order since I was a kid, I’ve owned a ’72 Monte Carlo, a ’69 Firebird, a ’91 Nissan Sentra, a ’94 9C1 Caprice, a ’94 Roadmaster Wagon, an ’03 S-10, and now a ’96 Honda Civic. Sprinkled around this are several circle track cars that I race. Each one of these cars did some things great. I bought them for different reasons. GET OVER IT.
I daily drive a Honda Civic. There’s a reason I do. Call me a traitor and shake your fist, tell me “I just don’t get it”, and tell me to get off your lawn or rant about the good ol’ days all you want. A car guy is a car guy is a car guy, it doesn’t MATTER what country the thing came from!
preach it brother tigeraid, preach it!
Bryan – I think you get the award for getting the most replies, and long winded ones at that.
How about an everclear slurpee?
Been liquor free since last October, and not by choice. Maybe in another year or so…
Problem I see is those in areas that cars don’t turn to dust, think everywhere has older cheap “buy in” cars to be had, and junkyards full of parts that can be used or adapted to work.. NEWS flash there isn’t.. The same generation that did what they did, won’t let their offspring do the same.. parents for the most part took time to do things with the kids, many don’t. many work longer hours and the days of sundays off for most is long gone..
I was lucky, my dad always had an interesting car, not a rod or a muscle car just interesting 66 caprice/73 cutlass/77 cutlass.
They were understanding when I took the lawnmower apart to see what made it tick, the t.v. the vcr, the 8 track player ,my new bike, didn’t freak if I got an oil stain on the driveway and we didn’t have a H.O.A. that send a fix that stain or we’ll start fining you..
I was allowed to take my 66 tempest that ran when I bought it, apart.
help paint the 77 cutlass twice, and generally make a mess of the driveway and garage.
Then I bought my house and had a few neigbors that had issues with the chevelle in pieces so I had to put up a 6’x24’x24′ stockade fence to hide it.. As the town you can’t have an un running vehicle in view from the street, can’t have more than one car that’s not tagged, so the race car had to go., I’d get a orange sticker on a car I’d be working on, cause someone called and bitched.. and when the officer drove by it was up on stands, giving me 72 hours to have it back running or at least look the part and be tagged. We’ve added landscaping to block the driveway from view so only the houses beside me can see whats in the driveway so I don’t have to take the truck off the stands every time I work on it. or get the bed back on fast.. and I don’t have the Nazi’s that are H.O.A. A kid that might not have the cash to start a repair and pay for it within 72 hours and have it back running, would be screwed.. And I’m not on a main road. people used to look the other way. today they will drop a dime in a heartbeat if they think your car will drop the value of their home.. These are the flower power gen and their kids, WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED.. to many mushrooms or what..
The takeaway here for me is that we need more unity and less division. I may think your Mirada is something I would never buy, or spend my money on. But I’m not you and who am I to be an asshole because you like Mirada’s? Or Imports or Corvettes? I know so many guys who basically shit all over every new car or every import. “It’s not like the 60’s with big block musclecars.”. Really? It’s actually better in some ways and we all know it. Why else would people be putting modern drivetrains in old cars? Everywhere you look there’s a rivalry or war going on. Domestic vs. Import. Ford vs. Chevy vs. Mopar. Mustang vs. Camaro. Corvette vs. Viper. And so on.
Trash talking and rivalries can be fun. Competition is good for business. But it gets out of control in forums, Facebook, etc. Dedicated places for trashing cars people love. Everything sucks but what I like. Awesome way to look at the World. I know lots of guys into imports that don’t feel welcome at their local track because they’ll call them “Ricers” even though they have killer cars. I’m even critical of a recent TV show starring some friends of mine pitting their “Redneck” Pro Touring Musclecars against Import “Punks”. Yes it was meant to be fun but stepping back, does this really positively brand or market our industry, sport, or hobby? Enthusiast rivalry is great. But not at the expense of other enthusiasts. Also the built not bought thing is noble, but not everybody can build, has time because they’re off making millions. Yet they still love the cars, and they’re supporting the industry so why be a dick?
If the government really decides to come after our industry, it won’t be all that hard to divide and conquer.
I’m 22 and a self proclaimed car guy/mechanical engineering student. I build, design and work with bbc’s daily, typically in the 487 cu in range on alternative fuels.
I drive a 1.8L Subaru Impreza and although I love all cars, I would never consider buying a muscle car. I have zero interest in going down that road, parts aren’t necessarily in junk yards as commonly anymore (MI rust). I get 30 mpg on my 100 mile daily commute and can bury most cars on the road when given a twistie stretch. I do all my own body work, coilovers, engine work, wiring, etc. but I rarely come on this site anymore because of the bashing of my generation.
My generation has less of an interest in “muscle” cars, with low paying jobs we can’t justify having a 12mpg car anymore and the attitude of a lot of the old school hot rod guys is just discouraging. Why go to a car meet when all it’s going to be is older guys bashing your platform and “damn kids”ing your generation? And the number of drag strips is rapidly decreasing, and I live by Milan for reference. I can go to autocross or rallycross and drive hard all day for $20 and putting cones back, don’t need a 4000# car with an expensive to maintain V8 for that.