This is so not going to go the way you think it is.
I’ve long been a proponent of real street cars, but I’ve also never been the guy that drove stuff most people thought of as “streetable”. After all, my ’69 Camaro had a 5500 rpm converter, a ‘Glide, and 4.56 gears. Fun on the freeway baby! NOT. But, I have always said that if your commute was only a mile, then a Funny Car could be perfectly appropriate for you to drive to and from work. If it’s 50 miles, maybe not. But I’d like to see you try. The reason I’m all fired up about Street Cars this week is because a good friend of mine, Doug Cline, got denied entrance into a Street Car race last weekend because his car has a round tube chassis under it. Meanwhile, dudes in Super Gas cars that had the license plate on them from the dually tow vehicle were allowed to run.
Seriously.
The promoter and the track, who shall remain nameless because I’m feeling generous, although that might change by the time I finish writing this deal, said that Doug was more than welcome to grab a back half or square tube chassis car and throw the tow vehicle plate on it and get it on. But no round tube chassis cars. When Doug proclaimed that his car was in fact a registered, insured, and regularly driven street car, and that he would challenge any of the other “gentleman” there racing to a run down to the store and back, he was denied. WTF?
Dougs car is going to be a real heavy hitter on Drag Week this year. I think that gorgeous son of a bitch ( the car not Doug) will run 6:70s or better. What I know 100% is that his car is totally streetable. I’ve seen it. It runs great down the highway, just like Larry Larson’s Chevy II, and a growing group of 6 second drag style street cars. These cars regularly navigate public roads of all kinds, and do it with little or no drama unless you count the throngs of people who stop, stare, gawk, and take pictures. Is Doug’s Camaro the street car for every man? No. But man what a society we would live in if it was. Woot woot!
So how in the hell does round tubing make this car any less of a street car? Is there some magic formula for the amount of round, square, rectangle or heart shaped tubing you must have to be a street car? And what’s the maximum?
I understand that as the promoter you get to make the rules, I’ve been that guy before. But, like anything else in life, a little logic could certainly help out.
But why is it that some folks think the way they do?
I mean some folks still consider Andy Frost’s Vauxhall to be the World’s Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Car. Street legal doesn’t mean street car. With solid billet heads, he won’t make it too far in traffic. But, it has apparently passed MOT in the UK and so he’s street legal. We’re good with that. But, I’ve got cash money that says if I set the route, and you only have 15 minutes to prep the car after completing it, there are several Drag Week competitors that would hand him his ass.
But I digress.
If I were to come up with some arbitrary rules for what makes a street car, there would be steel, glass, weight, and other requirements. But I’m not that guy…today.
The guy I am today is the one asking you to let us know what YOU think makes a street car. And don’t give me stuff about A/C, a radio, or anything like that. Those are comforts, and they are things many of our hot rods never came with from the factory.
Does a street car have to include certain equipment?
Or does a street car lose that status if it includes certain things that are only at home on a race car?
Does round vs rectangle tube matter?
How about new front suspension, like a strut setup? Be careful here, because the Pro-Touring world includes many aftermarket replacement front subframes and such that have no semblance of factory suspension left in them.
Is there are tire size limit on a street car?
Do blowers, nitrous, turbos, spools, clutchless transmissions, hood scoops, roll cages, 5 point harnesses, fire systems, or wheelie bars take a car out of the street car category?
I know this question has been asked many times, and you don’t have to agree with my thoughts on the subject, but of all the things that someone could use to determine whether a car is a street car or not, round tubing doesn’t seem to be the smartest one yet.
What do you think?
CHAD NOTE:
The comments below show me that BangShift readers are the smartest automotive enthusiasts out there. We may not all agree with every single detail, but the overwhelming response is that cars like Joe Barry’s double throwdown bitchinest ’56 Chevy ever is a street car. Larson’s Chevy II, a street car. Doug Clines Camaro, a street car. The Huber’s Mustang, most certainly a street car.
If you can operate it on the street, reliably, and drive it enough to enjoy it and go grab dinner, go to a show, etc, it’s a street car.
Should whether your wife will ride in it be a requirement? LOL
Is there any one thing that to you makes it immediately NOT a street car?
E:
I judge a street car’s worthiness as such: If you can hop in it, drive down to the local restaurant, turn the car off and go inside and have a full meal, then come back out, refire the car(by yourself) and drive it back home while in the food coma, it is a street car. The car can be as insane as you can imagine, but you have to be able to do that.
That sounds as reasonable as any, especially if you add John T’s note that you’d also need to avoid getting arrested for that trip.
That said, it would be hilarious to see if someone could get plates on a Super Comp dragster and drove it on the street just to make the “that’s not a street car!” crowd go berserk.
Real street cars can have anything fitted huge or small motored ,power adders etc but must be capable at any time to jump in and go.be it the shops or a 300mile trip.also my 57 here in the uk drives to all events and it tows. it only gets towed when broke!.oh and no slicks.
my take on a street car is ` that which will pass a roadside stop by a cop’. Now I know that is going to vary massively between countries and states, but really, what else have you got?? if you make up an arbitrary set of rules that the police don’t agree with and they defect your arse, then that says nothing about the car, that says your arbitrary set of rules is just plain wrong. In Australia for example, most states want minimum ground clearance of either 6 or 5 inches, full exhaust that exits the rear bumper, track that is within 1 ” of stock, full working lights, turn signals, mirrors, volume limits on the exhaust etc etc – and really that’s just the start… having said that, you’ve seen some of our nutso cars – ok, not all are road legal but most are. If you can build a car that satisfies these rules but has a tube chassis, then its a legal street car, end of story. Look at certain hot rods, Lotus 7 type cars etc that use tube chassis – if the rego people and the cops are happy, what right does some track owner have to dictate that these are NOT street legal? If the authorities are happy with it then so should the track owners…
Street car?
Tags, insurance, lights, turn signals, horn, mufflers, DOT tires, and an OEM safety glass windshield.
All else is fair game.
I think the best way to decide if it can be called a street car, is not that it can just be driven down the street, but if it can handle commuting. Pretty much any race car can be driven down the street on a sunny Sunday afternoon, if you can run it down the return roads at the track and park it and restart it several times in the staging lanes, you can make it down the street as well. What makes a car a street car, is if it can be driven in the worst situation possible for a hot rod, dead stop bumper to bumper commuter traffic in the heat of the summer. Throw on a pair M/T ET Street Radials, and you can drive in the rain, albeit a bit of a white knuckle drive. Wire it up for all the basic legalities like signals, lights, horn, etc., pass your state inspection (for most states at least). But can your radical high lift lumpy cam high compression motor handle sitting idling in traffic for an hour or two? That’s the true test of a street car. It ain’t a street car if you can’t commute in it. Otherwise, anything else is fair game in my mind.
Hey my thoughts is if it passes state inspection has a registration and plates it runs but has to be driven to the track from a central meat point 10 or 15 miles from the track. Chad you are right on bro!
IMHO….car would need to start with an orginal body. Can have glass hood, trunk,door… BUT steel structure. Be able to pass local laws for the city/state you live in. Be able to run it on pump gas. Drive it in the heat of the day to the local cruise spots and not over heat. I think the Pro mods with tags and lights that are showing up at DW are not “street cars” which i believe takes away fro the spirit of DW.
IMHO,Unlimited meen just that ,,if you can make it the distance,nothing else matters.I would disapointed if the unlimited class at drag week did not resemble a pro mod with lights and tags,next years rule should add steel body unlimited class. as for the Spirit of Drag Week ,how would a carbonfibered body pro mod bad ass drag car taking away from anything,,now if you showed up with a sprint car or winston cup car,that yes ,I see it,,if someone drove a 5 sec street legal dragster all of dragweek I think that would add to the Spirit of Drag
Week
The thing that gets me is that Andy Frost’s claim is that his car is street legal not a street car. Red Victor 3’s record is legitimate because it’s a street legal pro-mod car. It takes advantage of the fact it’s a 40 year old car it’s based on and therefore circumvents all the modern emissions regs. He doesn’t claim it’s a street car insofar as he doesn’t compete in Street Eliminator drag racing, where a mandatory street cruise is completed prior to eliminations taking place. It’s a pro-mod car with an MOT and tax disc hence it has a legitimate claim to being the world’s fastest street legal car. I am well aware that it upsets all the drag week guys because it doesn’t compete in their event and holds the record but that just sets the bar higher for them.
Great Read Chad!!!!!!!!! And if you can drive it down the road without problems its a street car and I am not talking 30 miles .
Real glass, a sustainable cooling system and other things as said above, plus wipers and no spool. If it’s going to swap ends in a puddle it’s not a street car.
What shape the tubing is, is just dumb, and putting the tow rig plate on a race car to make a show is kinda a clown act, don’t you think?
In CA as soon as the rear tire width exceeds some percentage of the fronts you’re illegal anyway.
The car should start out as a production vehicle. Then you can make it safe and put your roll cage in to make it safe. Building a car from the ground up is not a street car. It’s a race car. The rules in my opinion should be factory steel all around with the exception of the doors and front clip. Just my opinion.
I’ll echo many of the same sentiments as above. Street legal means safe and fully functional. Lights, horn, wipers (not Rain-X) etc. It should be reliable and repeatable. It also means NO radical changes to run it down the track. No cutting belts, no changing intakes …etc. Unfortunately this means you almost have to run a turbo / efi combo to be effective.
BIG difference to me between a “street legal” car and a true “street car”. A Street legal car may never see the road, but by the letter of the law would plausibly be eligible for inspection and registration. A real “street car”….. Drives in all road conditions, stop and go traffic friendly, no overheating, can be driven to the track, make several passes and drive home again without more than one stop at the fuel station throughout the evening and never having to open the hood, uses the same tires at the strip that were on it on the highway, runs on pump gas so as to be driven anywhere no matter how far without retuning or switching to race gas to make a pass, and a big one for me, It must have a reasonable expectation for reliability and engine life. If the engine or ANY of it’s hard components are used up after a couple thousand miles of driving and a few passes at the strip it is NOT a street car. A real street car should survive tens of thousands of miles of driving and plenty of track flogging without anything more than tune ups and fluid changes. THAT is a street car.
Runs on pump gas and can drive for at least an hour on the streets and on the freeway
A street car to me means you can drive it to work in any weather if your daily driver ever breaks down.
Andy Frosts car does have billet heads, but they run water. He also has a wiper, electric windows, horn, lights, and even some cup holders in the trans tunnel…
Red Victor driving down to McLaren HQ
To me, a street car is one that if you ask the owner to hop in it and meet you at a burger joint 20 or 30 miles away, he does not have a second thought about it. Fire it up, get in and go. No hesitation, no checking the radar for incoming rain, no hum hawing around, just get in and go….anytime.
But that’s just me.
Sound like the track in question needs better categories. ‘Vettes and several other cars aren’t sheet metal anyway. In the search for equality, look how messed up NASCAR has gotten. I don’t want ‘template’ cars, but gas vs nitro ain’t good either,(unless I have the nitro!). With ever increasing tech, well defined mod classes are important. On the street, first one to the corner wins!
You know me well enough Chad – If you can DRIVE it on the street, fill it up at the local gas station, and go through the drive through at the local In-and-Out then it’s a street car. I’ve had plates on some crazy things but I couldn’t get in any of them and actually drive them somewhere more than 10 minutes away. But if you can burn up a tank of gas and leave it in the parking lot of your local Motel 6… well… who cares what the frame is made of?
Its not a list of parts, it’s the idea you can get in a car and drive it down the road. I know a lot of people with Street Rods, one guys got a spool & huffer in his ’32 Ford sedan that’s he’s been running for 20 years on the street in excess of 50k+ miles from NY to Louisville, Columbus, etc. for the NSRA Nats. I also know someone who’s got an all stock ’40 Plymouth that he can’t drive for more that a couple miles and can’t sit in traffic. Which is the true Street Car? I say the sedan with the blower & spool because it gets driven.
Before we go to far with this… a distintiction needs to be made. street legal car, and a street car. There is a difference. I will be back later to clarify that statment. im at work now.
As for Chad’s suggestion of setting a specific route for a street cruise, in doing so you’re handicapping, taken to extremis you could handicap in such a way that could exclude anyone you didn’t want to win. I reckon I could devise a street route so tortuous that if you were to run a 1/4 mile after it my 4 banger diesel tow car would beat any car with a sub-10 second 1/4 mile simply due to how damaging it could be.
Street Car. Does it have a Vin number from the factory? or DOT approved replacement frame. Does it meet DOT requirements? Lights, brakes, emergency brake, DOT approved tires and wheels. Starts by its self. Can you drive it on the Power Tour or Drag Week (and not trailered in any way)? Unless you break down and if you break down(and has to be trailered) between every stops every day YOU didn’t build a very good STREET car! Can you drive 100 or 200 miles non stop? If you have slicks to run at the track like in Drag Week your car should pull a trailer!
Back in the day, around the shop, there was always an all-out drag only car or two sitting around. We would often put header mufflers and someone’s tags, and drive across town to lunch. A couple of the cars were lettered up, Gas class or M/P type cars. It was an 8 to 10 mile round trip, and we only got stopped one time. Dougie decided to do a block long burn-out, with his 5:13 geared, 340 4spd. Duster. He had changed it over to a M/P class car. 14 inch slicks and “Purple Hornies”(remember those?) on the street. The cop told him to be keep his eyes better peeled the next time and let him drive it back to work! Who says you can’t drive a race car on the street? If the cops don’t pop you – you’re good!
I’m sure most states are the same regarding inspections. In Texas, you are required to allow some complete stranger with a state inspection license to jump in your car, alone, and take it for a spin around the block testing road worthiness and brake operation. If you are willing to allow this to happen to your car, and it passes, then I consider it a street car, even if it has a 14-71 supercharger and runs on nitro.
Didn’t Jenson interceptors have round tube main chassis rails ? And that was from the factory so tube cars can be street cars , i think it should be anything goes , if it’s got a tag/ mot , insurance etc , you can drive it on the street and no matter what the chassis is made of or what is powering it then it’s a street car , all theoretical versions of what is or isn’t a street car don’t really mean a thing and usually it’s the slower guys complaining , if you can get it on the street and race it at the strip then do it while you can , before ‘the man ‘ puts an end to it all and we have to drive a prius ( however they fkin spell it )
A street car is one that the DMV and police believe to be legal to register and insure to drive on a public road. Period. End of story.
All the rest is nothing more than personal opinions and prejudices. All are irrevalent.
Guys will whine it runs on race gas. It has more bars in the roll cage than the jungle gym at the school yard. It has a fire system. It has wheelie bars. It has a tiny fuel tank. You cant drive 50 miles. Blah. Blah. Blah. It is still a street car.
If it’s registered, licensed, insured ….. W.T.F. Some people ” ? ” are just plain stupid ….. You know …. you can’t fix that !
With you 100%. If it meets the regulations to drive on the street then it’s a street car. Doesn’t matter how far it will run.
The “low” Camaro pictured would not even make it out of our housing development due to speed “dips” on every street. Just sayin’.
A fast car can have several different goals. You can go rounds and work your way up through a ladder elimination. You can have the paint, sound, burnout, launch and reputation to put on a great show. Or you can go quicker and faster than anyone on the grounds or even anyone in history has gone. A close competition is O.K. for ball sports but Drag Racing thrives on spectacle and innovation. Sixteen Pro Stocks with every piece and specification tightly regulated qualifying in the same tenth is becoming a snooze. Sixteen Outlaw Pro Mods will cover 6-7 tenths. You can actually SEE when a car is laying down a big number. The engines and fuels vary all over. But back to Doug Cline. The promoter wanted a big field and close affordable racing. ALL ELSE was tossed aside. I hope he had a good time knowing nothing spectacular was bound to happen and he sent the fastest street machine that showed up home without making a run.
Working windshield wipers and locking doors.
plates, tags, ability to drive by a cop without being impounded, insured, that is about it to me
OK… here it is. we are talking about two different things, and both pertaining to drag week. Taggable race cars with a VIN, and a fully functional street car. The question every one likes to “make their own rules up” about, is where the line is. It’s subjective. I don’t think individual qualities or pieces of a car decide that. It is how drivable, functional, comfortable, feasible it is to drive.It’s not round vs, square tube, blown vs NA, chassis vs factory stock, etc. I believe that is the combo of these items, and the outcome. A real line in the sand is impossible, as there is a huge grey area between a street car and a race car. you could give it give a rating though. Chad mentioned the radio, AC and all that, but i disagree. these are things to consider. Who wants to drive two or three hours across the state without a radio, in the middle of july in the mid afternoon? Is that car, without these things going to be your first choice to take your family to do this? Or is it going to be your 07 Buick Lucerne sitting next to it? You know what the answer is, and your hod rod is *LESS* street-able right there. then you can say the same things about power steering, brakes, working defroster, heater, working wipers,pump gas, glass windows, being able to clear a speed pump, drives well in the rain, doesn’t overheat….ETC. I think unlimited is a flagship class for hot rod drag week, and should remain untouched. I however should consider a class to replace the so called daily driver class. This should involve no structure of what motor suspension, n/a, nothing like that. it should involve coming with an empty tank, taking on pump gas (or e85), the usual drive,, tags and proof. Here comes the pain in the ass, but would be worth it: a 1-5 star rating of the of above amenities. Examples: no interior? fine you get a 1. no radio? you get a 1 in that category. Got power steering AND power brakes? you get a 5 in that category. Has a back seat? you get a 5, didn’t come with one stock( vette cobra or the like) you get a 3. took it out? you get a 1. got full HVAC you get a 5, got a heater/defrost you get 4, heater 3…none of it a 1. grandma can drive it? a 5, only John force? a 1. ON and ON. you can see where i am going with this. NOW… give everyone a score. Take the top scoring 30 (or whatever size field) and let them run. At this point fastest guy wins this way any realistically street able car can enter. Race cars and factory race cars get ruled out. AND Last but not Least… The winner can truly claim to be the fastest STREET CAR in America.
I meant to say a line in the sand is NOT possible above.
Your rating system is off….
My 85 Mustang came radio delete,and had no A/C.
My 64 Comet had NO heater,radio or SEAT BELTS from the factory,why do I loose points.
My current 68 Mustang has full HVAC but no power steering or brakes and has no radio. I have driven it, gas stops only, 1100 miles in one day plus 300 the next,twice. It has 13000 miles on it. The things your giving points for meen nothing.
If we are talking a race class current state inspection sticker is about it. Failing that DOT glass windshield,lights, signals,horn,wipers is about it. If you want to drag the oil pan off the bottom thats up to you.
Now getting tossed because you have a tube frame. Cobras had round tube frames too.
The point is your both your cars with deletes were a stripper for a factory race motive, or just cheap.but also unusual. The more of these thing that have been left on a car the more likely it will be driven on the street. Because it is a street car. as far as point system… there is no system… i am giving examples. an organization could make these weigh whatever them deem necessary. I asked a guy at work about his model A with this thread in mind without telling him about this thread. I ask him what keeps him from bringing out his A? He said “comfort”. “it’s not real drivable”. WHY? because it doesn’t have some of these things either. it’s in near perfect working condition. so i believe i am right in line here. now as far as your cars not having radio or the like, they may have other qualities that make them more street-able than the next car. Not having those items would not necessarily be a loss. It’s about the car as whole. not just one thing or the other. There would be no one rule that would make you lose.
To me a street car has to be able to do the following……Saturday morning my wife asks me to drop Mr 8yr old at sport and he says “Dad can we take (insert your hot rod here)?” and in 5 min it’s out of the shed and both boys are happy. On that same drive, on the way home I think “I’ll just stop off and get….whatever”….I can. Then on the way home, on a quiet back street the right pedal is pressed and smiles ensue. Upon getting home it is backed into the shed, turned off and no maintenance is required.
That said, I LOVE Larsen’s Chev!
That thing is f*****g bad ass.
Street car: Able to be legally driven on public roads repeatedly for more than a couple miles without breaking down. I realize that by nature, hot rods re going to throw fits at inopportune times. I’m simply talking about repeatable results.
Not a street car: Not able to be legally driven on the streets. Not sufficiently reliable enough to drive for more than a few minutes without repeatedly breaking down. Either would qualify it as a race car or driveway art to me.
This article hit it right on the money, there are to many people that get caught up in the accessories a car has when accessories don’t mean squat, how a car is driven regularly determines if it is a street car or not, period, end of discussion.
I don’t know if anyone else remembers back in the mid 90’s when Hot Rod and many of the other mags used to write regularly that “tube chassis strut cars were not street cars” In 1995 I had been driving my full tube chassis strut equipped yellow ’57 Chevy with a 572 big block on the street for about 5 years regularly so I wrote Hot Rod a letter which they printed that said among other things; How can they say a strut car isn’t a street car when probably 95% of todays factory production cars are strut cars?
I remember somewhere else in that issue of Hot Rod they did make a statement like “maybe strut cars are street cars after all”
Kinda my point above. how does one aspect of the car make it a street car or not. It’s about be able to drive it and use it. most importantly enjoying it. and ya everything has struts now…
Haven’t read through all the comments, so sorry if its a repeat, but…. One thing a street car HAS to do is be filled up at “any gas station – USA” If it can’t run on pure pump swill, its a race-car. beyond that, it should also be able to run on the freeway at 60 MPH for extended periods without overheating or burning up the tranny, and it should be decently comfortable to do this, as well.
Your buddy got shut down because his car would have kicked ass! The track prick was protecting his own from being embarassed. You did not give his name, but I think it’s PUSSY!
Personally I’ve had this debate a bunch of times with friends. My only requirement for a street car is it must be able to be driven on pump gas. All the other stuff doesn’t matter to me but if I can only run a certain distance and then have to go scurrying back to the shop for more fuel then it’s not a street car. If you need fuel and have to wait on someone to bring you the c-16 it’s not a street car. As for all the other stuff, legality, accessories, seating, that’s all personal preference and if you’re willing to pay the citations for equipment violations then it’s a street car to me. The more radical it is the better it is to me.
we won nc street outlaws race last year Doug was one of the first one to congratulate us in winner circle great guy have a lot of respect for him thats one of the reasons we are not running street outlaws this year i think we should all do a 50 mile cruise i tried to tell Doug let me help him bolt some 2×3 rail up front and put it to these guys lol
Eric Yost
The cars in question are not street cars, they are race cars that can be driven on the street. A street car is a factory car that has been built up. Not a chassis car that you can awkwardly drive around on the street.
I mean really, it isn’t that hard to tell a difference. A fast street car is way more impressive than a race race on the street. Anyone can built that, it take talent to make a fast street car.
But street cars none-the-less, actually a full chassis car that was built to be driven on the street is more streetable than a modified factory car because you can do away with the compromises that modifying a factory car results in, one of the more common comments I got from riders in my 572 cube full tube chassis ’57 Chevy back when I cruised in it in the mid 90’s was how much more smooth and driveable it was than their modified factory cars.
Fast factory cars are impressive, you’re right there, but the full tilt street driven chassis cars are insane…
it’s very simple. everyone does a 50 mile group cruise on the street with a pace car. then the street will show you what is or is not a street car. if you can not or will not drive your car on the cruise, you are out….the end.
could I drive my car in the rain? yes. will I drive it in the rain?…no. I will not risk some moron hitting it. we all know that you are much more likely to be hit on wet roads.
A Street Car is one that finishes Drag Week. (If you wonder what that takes, just read the rules.)
I See it that way
If it can be Run in stop And go Traffic without Spilling its Guts , overheating or burning up the Trans or clutch it is legit And i dont mean just around the block
Diskussionsbeitrag about Fuel Frames licence Platzes And stuff like that Are useless cause every State , Country has it own Regulations . So fuck them
The only question what Gets me thinking is ehy is everybody bitching about andys Record ? If i had the Money and or would be One of the Guys left in the dust i would Not waste my Time saying its not legit i would Try to Beat the Record
Cheers from Germany